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Alex: Hey, Sam. Sam: Hello, Alex. How are you? Alex: Good. Good afternoon. It’s good to see you. Sam: How is life? Alex: Not bad. Sam: Good to hear. I have to thank you, Alex, because you were the one who told me about this news story. I’ve been completely absorbed in it ever since. It is one of the craziest celebrity stories I have ever heard. Alex: So you read it? Sam: Yes. I read the whole thing—every letter, every piece of information, every news report, everything I could find. Alex: Wow. Sam: It’s a fascinating story. What makes it even more interesting is that we had already been discussing relationships and dating, and this story connects directly to that topic in several ways. Alex: Absolutely. There are so many layers to it, and one important layer is the nature of relationships themselves.
Sam：你好，Alex。Alex：你好，Sam。Sam：你怎么样？Alex：挺好的。下午好，很高兴见到你。Sam：最近生活怎么样？Alex：还不错。Sam：那就好。我必须先谢谢你，Alex，因为是你告诉我这条新闻的。自从你跟我提起以后，我就完全被这个故事吸引住了。这是我听过最离奇的名人新闻之一。Alex：所以你已经看过了？Sam：是的，我把能找到的东西几乎都看了——整件事、每封信、每一条信息、每一篇新闻报道。Alex：哇。Sam：真的非常有意思。我们之前本来就在讨论恋爱和亲密关系，而这个故事在某些方面恰好与那个主题直接相关。Alex：是的。这个故事有很多不同层次，可以从很多角度讨论，其中一个很重要的角度就是人与人之间关系的性质。
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Sam：我尤其对给新娘和新娘家庭的那笔钱感兴趣。我以前并不知道这种做法现在仍然存在。这在中国还很普遍吗？Alex：当然，这么高的金额并不正常，但支付这样一笔钱的做法仍然很常见。你抓住了这个故事的一个关键点。我想这在西方国家并不常见，对吧？Sam：对，这有点像“彩礼”。Alex：是的，就是彩礼。彩礼本身很有意思，也有很长的历史。在我看来，它还反映了当代中国男女比例失衡的问题。一般来说，在一个比较正常的人口结构中，男女出生性别比大约是每100名女性对应105名男性左右。Sam：对。Alex：男性人数略多一点，可以被认为是一种自然状态。
Sam: I’m especially interested in the payment made to the bride and her family. I wasn’t aware that this was still something that happened. Is it still a common practice in China? Alex: Of course, an amount that large is not normal, but the practice of making such a payment is still quite common. You’ve identified one of the key points in the story. I don’t think this is normal in most Western countries, right? Sam: Right. It’s basically a bride price. Alex: Exactly—the bride price. It’s actually a very interesting custom with a long history. In my view, it also reflects the current imbalance in the ratio of men to women in China. Normally, in a relatively balanced population, you might have around 105 males for every 100 females. Sam: Yes. Alex: So having slightly more males can be considered a natural demographic pattern.
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Alex：之所以会多出大约5名男性，是因为男性在自然环境和生活中往往面临更多风险，所以长期来看，这种差异有助于维持一种总体平衡。但在今天的中国，一些地方的男女比例可能远远超过这个范围，甚至达到大约130名男性对应100名女性。Sam：哇，130？Alex：对。我认为造成这种结果的一个重要原因是过去的计划生育政策。这个政策也曾受到一些西方国家批评，因为他们认为它违背了人的自然生育选择。计划生育政策后来逐渐放宽并取消，大约已经是十年前左右的事情了。在那之前，政策非常严格，很多家庭只能有一个孩子。Sam：对。Alex：而这就带来了一些后果，特别是在农村地区。那时人们可以借助B超来判断胎儿是男孩还是女孩。
Alex: The reason there are naturally a few more males is that men have historically faced more physical risks, so a slightly higher male birth rate can still result in a fairly balanced population over time. But in some parts of China today, the ratio has been much more extreme—sometimes described as roughly 130 males for every 100 females. Sam: Wow, 130? Alex: Yes. I think one major reason for that was the former family-planning policy. It was also criticized by some Western countries because they believed it interfered with people’s natural reproductive choices. The policy was gradually relaxed and eventually ended around a decade ago. Before that, it was very strict, and many families were allowed to have only one child. Sam: Right. Alex: That created a number of consequences, especially in rural areas. At that time, people could use ultrasound technology, such as a B-scan, to find out whether a fetus was male or female.
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Alex：在中国的医疗体系中，用B超进行非医学需要的胎儿性别鉴定是被限制甚至禁止的。但实际上，这种检查并不是特别复杂。尤其在农村，如果你认识医生或护士，他们有时可能就能够帮你做这种检查。这样一来，人们就能知道胎儿是男孩还是女孩。如果发现是女孩，有些家庭就会选择终止妊娠。Sam：我明白。Alex：长期积累下来，这种选择就可能导致非常严重的性别比例失衡。你也可以理解当时一些家庭的心理：如果我只能有一个孩子，他们可能会问自己，为什么不留下一个男孩？这种想法在农村地区尤其明显。
Alex: In China’s medical system, using ultrasound for non-medical fetal sex identification was restricted and, in many cases, prohibited. But in practice, the procedure itself was not very complicated. Especially in rural areas, if someone knew a doctor or a nurse, it might have been possible to get the scan done informally. That allowed families to learn whether the fetus was a boy or a girl. If it was a girl, some families chose to terminate the pregnancy. Sam: I see. Alex: Over time, those individual decisions could contribute to a very serious imbalance in the sex ratio. You can also understand the thinking that some families had at the time: if they were only allowed to have one child, they might ask themselves, “Why not keep a boy?” That attitude was particularly common in some rural areas.
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Alex：在一些家庭的观念里，与女孩相比，男孩将来可能更容易挣钱。更重要的是，当父母年老以后，如果家里只有一个女儿，他们会担心她是否能够独自承担整个家庭的经济责任。因此，在独生子女政策背景下，一些家庭更倾向于要男孩。这样的长期结果之一，就是女性相对更少，彩礼也因此变得非常普遍。后来它逐渐成为一种社会传统，而且并不只存在于贫困家庭，而是会影响整个社会对婚姻的理解。Sam：是的。Alex：所以回到这个故事，景甜据说向孙先生提出了大约3000万美元的彩礼要求。这笔钱本身就成为故事里一个非常重要的细节。
Alex: In some families, there was a belief that a son might have better earning potential than a daughter. More importantly, parents worried about what would happen when they became old. If they had only one daughter, they might wonder whether she could carry the financial responsibility for the whole family by herself. So under the one-child policy, some families strongly preferred sons. One long-term consequence was that there were fewer women relative to men, and bride prices became increasingly common. Over time, the practice became a social tradition that was not limited to poor families; it influenced broader attitudes toward marriage. Sam: Yes. Alex: So, returning to this story, Jing Tian reportedly asked Mr. Sun for around $30,000,000 as a bride price. That payment became a very important detail in the dispute.
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Alex：关键在于，孙先生转账时做得很谨慎。他把钱分成两笔，一笔15万美元转给景甜的父亲，另一笔1500万美元转给她的母亲，而且在转账备注里明确写明这是“彩礼”。Sam：这样就非常清楚这笔钱的用途了。如果婚姻没有继续，他也就有了起诉要求返还的依据。Alex：对。另外一个关键点是，孙先生并不是出身于什么显赫世家。Sam：也就是说，他不是所谓贵族家庭的第二代。Alex：对，不是。他来自比较普通的家庭，所以他对每一分钱都很在意。Sam：是的。Alex：如果一个人从小就是超级富豪，给女方转这样一笔钱时，他未必会特别认真地标明用途。但孙先生会这样做，说明他对钱和交易细节都非常敏感。
Alex: The key point is that Mr. Sun was very careful when he transferred the money to Jing Tian’s parents. He split it into two payments: about $15,000,000 to her father and another $15,000,000 to her mother. He also clearly wrote in the transfer note that the money was a “bride price.” Sam: That made the purpose of the payment very clear, so if the marriage did not go ahead, he had a stronger basis for suing to get it back. Alex: Exactly. Another important point is that Mr. Sun did not come from an elite or aristocratic family. Sam: In other words, he wasn’t born into some kind of wealthy nobility. Alex: Right. He came from a relatively ordinary background, so he cared about every cent. Sam: Yes. Alex: Someone born extremely wealthy might transfer a large amount without carefully documenting its purpose. Sun’s behavior shows how closely he pays attention to money and transactions.
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Alex：即使他现在据说拥有大约85亿美元，已经非常富有，他仍然很难完全摆脱自己普通家庭出身所形成的习惯。通过这个故事你会发现，他几乎每一步都经过计算。故事曝光以后，他的前女友也在社交媒体上发帖，说过一些关于他的生活细节，比如他曾让她给自己洗内衣。Sam：从很多事情看，他确实像是一个非常聪明的人，而且他做出的许多动作似乎都经过认真思考，背后都有某种理由。他并不是随意行动，而是习惯提前考虑结果。
Alex: Even though he is now said to be worth around $8.5 billion and has become extremely wealthy, he still seems unable to completely escape the habits shaped by his more modest social background. Throughout this story, you can see that he calculates almost every step. After the story became public, one of his former girlfriends also posted about him on social media, mentioning personal details—for example, that he had once asked her to wash his underwear. Sam: He really does seem like an intelligent person, and many of the moves he has made appear to be carefully thought out. There seems to be a reason behind almost everything he does. He doesn’t come across as someone who acts randomly; he tends to think about the consequences in advance.
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Sam：但有一点我一直很困惑：为什么他会决定在自己的社交媒体上公开谈论那些非常私密的细节，包括她的个人生活以及他们两个人一起做过的事情？无论在哪个社会，尤其涉及一名女性，这些内容通常都不适合公开。我当时就觉得，这样做显然可能反过来伤害他自己，引发公众强烈反感。事实也确实如此，他因为公开这些亲密细节受到了很大批评。那他为什么还要这样做？我一直想不明白。Alex：你又抓住了另一个关键点。我认为，他这些行为背后的目的与他花钱购买那幅画、借机进入更高层次社交圈，以及和景甜这样有名的女演员建立关系，是有联系的。背后还有更复杂的商业动机。
Sam: One thing I was really confused about was why he decided to post such intimate details on social media—details about her private life and things they had done together. In almost any society, especially when talking publicly about a woman, those are things you would normally keep private. It seemed obvious to me that this could work against him and create a major public backlash. And that is exactly what happened: he received a lot of criticism for sharing those details. So why would he make that decision? I couldn’t understand it. Alex: You’ve identified another key point. I think the purpose behind those actions is connected to the same logic as his purchase of that expensive painting, his effort to gain access to higher social circles, and his relationship with a famous actress like Jing Tian. There were more complicated business motivations behind it as well.
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Alex：这种做法和他赚钱的方式也有密切关系，尤其是比特币和加密货币。他需要最大限度地吸引公众注意。彩礼争议可能只是一个引爆点，但更深层的动机，是让大量的人，甚至让全球范围内的人都关注他，并好奇他到底是怎么赚到那么多钱的。事件发生以后，他甚至推出了一种叫“景甜币”的虚拟货币。Sam：是吗？Alex：对，据说仅仅靠这种方式，他一周左右就赚了大约2300万美元。Sam：哇。Alex：它本质上也是一种虚拟货币。投资的人越多，价格就可能越高。Sam：明白。Alex：所以从整体上看，这也是一种利用公众注意力来快速赚钱的方式。
Alex: This strategy is also closely connected to the way he makes money, especially through Bitcoin and cryptocurrency. He wants as much public attention as possible. The bride-price controversy may simply have been the trigger, while the deeper motivation was to make large numbers of people—even people around the world—focus on him and become curious about how he had made so much money. After the event, he even launched a virtual currency referred to as the “Jing Tian Coin.” Sam: Really? Alex: Yes. According to what I saw, he made about $23,000.000 from it in roughly one week. Sam: Wow. Alex: It was another form of virtual currency. The more people who invested in it, the higher its value could rise. Sam: I see. Alex: So overall, it can also be understood as a way of turning public attention into a large and very rapid profit.
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Alex：你刚才提到的另一个问题，是为什么他会把这么私密的事情发到社交媒体上。我注意到，在加拿大、日本或英国，人们一般不会这样做，除非这些信息是由记者调查后报道出来。普通人很少会把如此私人的关系细节主动公开。我觉得这很能体现中国与一些西方国家之间在社会边界和隐私观念上的差异。有时人们会讨论一个社会的“底线”到底在哪里。不同文化对什么行为可以接受、什么行为不合适，会有很不一样的判断。比如有些来自印度的人移民到加拿大以后，加拿大人可能会对他们的一些做法感到不理解，因为某些在印度很正常的行为，在加拿大人的标准里可能就不一样。Sam：是的。Alex：我可以举一个非常具体的例子。
Alex: Another point you raised was why he would post such private information on social media. I’ve noticed that in places like Canada, Japan, or the UK, people generally would not do that, unless the information came out through journalistic reporting. Ordinary people rarely publish such intimate details about their relationships themselves. To me, this shows a real difference between China and some Western countries in terms of privacy and social boundaries. People sometimes talk about the “bottom line” of a society—what is considered acceptable and what is considered inappropriate. Different cultures can have very different standards. For example, when people from India immigrate to Canada, Canadians may sometimes be confused by certain behaviors because something that feels completely normal in India may be judged differently in Canada. Sam: Yes. Alex: I can give you a very specific example of what I mean.
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Alex：有一天我去Costco买了一片披萨，然后想再要一个盘子把披萨装好。当时一名印度裔员工在柜台附近，他看到桌面上有一个倒扣着的盘子，就直接对我说：“你可以用那个。”我当时非常惊讶，因为那个盘子是在公共桌面上倒扣着的。我心里想：你是让我用这个盘子装我的披萨吗？但对他来说，也许这完全正常。他可能觉得这里本来就很干净，那只是一个盘子，拿起来直接用就可以。从他的角度看没有问题；但从我的角度看，我会觉得它放在公共桌面上，可能已经脏了。Sam：明白。Alex：所以我想表达的是，不同国家、不同文化背景的人，对卫生、公共空间和什么算“正常”的标准可能真的很不一样。
Alex: One day I went to Costco to buy a slice of pizza, and I asked for another plate to hold it. An employee of Indian background was working nearby. There was already a plate sitting upside down on a public table, and he simply said, “You can use that one.” I was really surprised. I thought, “You mean that plate—the one that has been sitting upside down on a public table?” But for him, perhaps that was completely normal. He may have thought the area was clean, it was just a plate, and there was no problem using it. From his perspective, it was perfectly acceptable. From my perspective, however, I thought it might already be dirty because it had been sitting on a public surface. Sam: I see. Alex: So my point is that people from different countries and cultural backgrounds can have genuinely different standards for cleanliness, public spaces, and what they consider normal.
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Alex：所以，不同国家或不同公共文化环境确实有不同的标准。中国近些年也制定了一些法律和规定来限制某些行为，尤其是新闻和信息往往会受到政府监督。Sam：对。Alex：但我觉得，这个名人故事和另一件非常重要的事情之间可能存在关联。那就是洪灾。Sam：什么？Alex：洪灾。Sam：哦，洪灾。Alex：对。洪灾发生以后仅仅几天，不到一周，全国几乎所有人都开始知道孙先生和景甜的故事，于是公众注意力就从那场灾难上被移开了。Sam：所以你的意思是，这个名人事件可能起到了转移注意力的作用？Alex：对，可能让大家不再集中讨论洪灾造成的负面影响和破坏。我当时看到的一些说法是，洪灾造成了大约一千人死亡、五千人失踪。
Alex: So yes, different countries and public cultures can have very different standards. China has also introduced laws and regulations in recent years to restrict certain types of behavior, and news and information are often subject to government supervision. Sam: Right. Alex: But I think there may be a connection between this celebrity story and another very important event—the flood. Sam: The what? Alex: The flood. Sam: Oh, the flood. Alex: Yes. Only a few days after the flood, certainly less than a week, almost everyone in the country seemed to know the story about Mr. Sun and Jing Tian. Public attention shifted away from the disaster. Sam: So you think the celebrity story may have functioned as a distraction? Alex: Yes, potentially distracting people from the bad publicity surrounding the flood and the damage it caused. Some of the figures I saw at the time claimed around 1,000 deaths and 5,000 people missing.
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Alex：我看到这些数字主要来自国际社交媒体。相反，在中国的社交媒体平台，比如抖音和小红书上，你几乎很难看到关于洪灾的报道。Sam：这很有意思。如果你的判断成立，那你的意思是不是：孙先生和这位女演员之间的事情本身确实发生了，但政府可能把这个故事推到最前面，让大家把注意力从洪灾造成的破坏和混乱上转移开？Alex：对。所以我觉得这是一个很值得讨论的话题。在西方政治生活中，如果一些政治人物想制造某个议题、转移公众注意力，他们有时也会把消息提供给记者。Sam：没错。Alex：然后通过媒体发布这些消息，就可能把公众舆论引向某个特定方向，从而达到某种政治目的。
Alex: Those figures were mainly coming from international social media. By contrast, on major Chinese platforms such as Douyin and Xiaohongshu, I could hardly see any reporting about the flood. Sam: That’s interesting. So, if your interpretation were correct, would the idea be that the events involving Mr. Sun and the actress really did happen, but the government may have pushed that story to the front in order to distract people from the damage and chaos caused by the flood? Alex: Yes. That is why I think it is a very interesting topic to discuss. In Western political life, if politicians want to create a story or redirect public attention, they may sometimes provide information to reporters. Sam: That’s right. Alex: Once the information is published, it can guide public opinion toward a particular issue or direction and help achieve a political objective.
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Alex：要达到这种目的，就需要利用很多资源，包括记者、新闻机构、消息来源，以及新闻最终通过什么方式被发布给公众。从机制上说，各种政治制度里都可能存在类似做法。但在一些西方制度中，这种操作也可能受到其他人的调查和监督。记者、反对党、研究人员或其他机构可能会认真追查一件事，看看背后是否存在隐藏目的。有时最终还会发展成正式调查或政治议程。Sam：对。Alex：但在中国，我认为政府有能力更集中地完成整个过程，普通公众很难知道是谁制造了这个议题，也很难知道消息是怎样被推动起来的。最终效果可能是相似的，甚至更强，因为政府可以同时利用它掌握的各种资源、传播渠道和机构。Sam：我明白你的意思。
Alex: To achieve that kind of objective, you need to use many different resources: reporters, news organizations, sources, and the channels through which the story is eventually presented to the public. Similar methods can exist in different political systems. But in some Western systems, these actions may also face investigation and scrutiny from others. Journalists, opposition parties, researchers, or institutions may carefully examine an event and ask whether there was another purpose behind it. Sometimes it can even turn into a formal investigation or political issue. Sam: Right. Alex: In China, however, I think the government has the ability to manage such a process in a much more centralized way. Ordinary people may not know who created the story or how it was promoted. The final effect can be similar, or even stronger, because the government can use many of the resources, channels, and institutions it controls at the same time. Sam: I see what you mean.
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Alex：古希腊有一种说法，大意是说群体往往容易受到影响。普通人很容易被记者、媒体或公开信息引导。所以，当大家都被吸引去讨论一个富豪和女演员之间的故事时，就可能忽略另一场更加严重的灾难。我当时把它和西藏、理波一带的灾情联系在一起，并看到过“约六千人丧生”这样的说法。对我来说，这还不仅仅是一场自然灾害。它在某种程度上也像一次军事动员能力的测试。Sam：什么意思？Alex：如果灾难发生在一个非常偏远的地方，政府要救援，就必须迅速抵达现场、组织交通并调动大量人员。这个过程从后勤角度看，与一个国家在危机中快速部署军队有某些相似之处。你需要测试自己到底能不能在非常短的时间内把大量人员送到一个困难的地点。
Alex: There is an old idea associated with the ancient Greeks that crowds can be easily influenced. Ordinary people can be guided by reporters, media, or the information placed in front of them. So when everyone becomes absorbed in a story about a wealthy man and an actress, they may neglect a far more serious disaster. At the time, I connected this with the disaster I had heard about in Tibet and Libo, where I saw claims of roughly 6,000 deaths. For me, it was not only a natural-disaster story. In a way, it also looked like a test of military-style mobilization. Sam: What do you mean? Alex: If a disaster happens in a very remote place, the government has to reach the area quickly, organize transportation, and deploy large numbers of people. From a logistical perspective, that has some similarities to rapidly deploying military forces during a crisis.
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Alex：中国政府经常强调自己拥有很强的军事和动员能力，可以在非常短的时间内迅速投送大量人员。如果把这种能力放到台湾情境里，逻辑也是类似的：海峡环境复杂、海况可能恶劣，你仍然需要快速把大量人员和装备送过去。但如果面对国内一个偏远地区的灾难，连救援人员都不能迅速抵达，那么公众就可能对中国真正的投送和动员能力产生怀疑，也会进一步怀疑中国是否真的具备快速对台湾采取军事行动的能力。Sam：我明白。Alex：所以从军事和国家能力的角度看，这并不是一个小故事，而可能是一个很大的问题。正因为如此，我才会怀疑，这个名人事件是否被用来遮盖另一个更重要的事件。
Alex: The Chinese government often emphasizes that it has very strong military and mobilization capabilities and can deploy large numbers of personnel in a short period of time. If you apply that idea to a Taiwan scenario, the logic is similar: the sea conditions could be difficult, and you would still need to move large numbers of people and equipment very quickly. But if, during a domestic disaster in a remote area, rescue forces cannot be deployed rapidly, people may begin to question China’s real logistical and mobilization capacity. They may also question whether China could actually carry out a rapid military operation against Taiwan. Sam: I see. Alex: So from the perspective of military and state capacity, this is not a small issue at all. That is why I wondered whether the celebrity story might have been used to cover up or overshadow a much more important story.
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Sam：那这只是一个理论，还是你真的认为这次就是这样发生的？Alex：对我来说，这不仅仅是一个抽象理论，而是来自我过去观察到的经验。很多时候，社交媒体上的热点议题都可能受到政府宣传和推动。即使发生了灾难或其他负面事件，明星和娱乐人物往往是最容易被用来吸引注意力的人，因为他们能迅速把公众注意力带走。Sam：我理解。类似的事情在我们的媒体环境里也会发生，至少人们经常怀疑它会发生。它不一定总能被证明。特朗普就经常被认为非常擅长转移注意力。比如他面临各种诉讼和指控时，往往能够让公众注意力迅速转向别的事情。
Sam: Is that just a theory, or do you genuinely believe that is what happened in this case? Alex: For me, it is not only an abstract theory; it comes from patterns I believe I have observed over time. Social-media hot topics are often shaped or promoted by government propaganda. Even when a disaster or another negative event occurs, celebrities and entertainment figures can be especially useful for drawing public attention away because people become interested in them very quickly. Sam: I understand. Similar things happen in our media environment as well—or at least people often assume they happen. They are not always proven. Trump, for example, is often described as being extremely skilled at redirecting attention. When he faces lawsuits, allegations, or other negative stories, he has repeatedly found ways to get the public focused on something completely different.
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Sam：后来还有爱泼斯坦文件之类的争议，很多人都认为特朗普与其中一些人物和事件存在关联，他的名字也被提到过。但他在政治上给人的感觉就像“防弹”一样，一次又一次把批评、指控和诉讼带来的负面注意力从自己身上转移开。你可以对特朗普有各种评价，我自己也有很多看法，但不得不承认，他确实非常擅长这一点：把公众对自己的负面关注迅速转移到完全不同的事情上。Alex：所以有些人会说，我们生活在一种“表演型社会”里，好像有人像导演一样安排议题、设计情节，而普通人只是不断跟着这些情节走。
Sam: Then there were controversies such as the Epstein files. Many people believed Trump had connections with some of the people or events involved, and his name was mentioned. Yet politically, he sometimes seems almost bulletproof. Time after time, he has managed to redirect attention away from criticism, allegations, and lawsuits. You can say many things about Trump—I certainly have plenty to say—but one thing he really is a master at is deflecting negative publicity and getting everyone focused on something completely different. It is quite remarkable. Alex: That is why some people describe society as increasingly performative. It can feel as though someone is acting like a director—setting the agenda, arranging the story, and deciding what everyone should be watching—while ordinary people simply move from one dramatic narrative to the next.
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Alex：作为普通人，我们既没有足够的权力，也没有足够的资源去判断一件事到底是不是真的，或者事件背后是不是还有更深的目的。我们可能非常投入地观看、讨论这些故事，但仍然不知道真正的目的是什么。Sam：这个故事还有另一个很有意思的角度，就是代孕。按照孙先生目前的说法——其中有些仍然只是他的指控，并没有全部得到证实——在他们准备取卵并推进代孕程序之前，女方突然要求一笔额外付款。我记得一开始说是3000万美元，后来是5000万美元，对吗？Alex：对，5000万美元。Sam：而且还有一个很奇怪、也很有喜剧效果的细节：据说他还去问Claude该怎么办。
Alex: As ordinary people, we often do not have enough power or resources to know whether something is true or whether there is a deeper purpose behind an event. We can become completely absorbed in these stories and still have no way of discovering the real objective behind them. Sam: Another very interesting angle to this story is the surrogacy issue. According to Mr. Sun’s account—and some of these points are still allegations that have not been fully proven—just before they were going to retrieve her eggs and move ahead with the surrogacy process, she suddenly demanded an additional payment. I first heard $30 million, and then $50 million. Was it $50 million? Alex: Yes, $50 million. Sam: And there was another strange but funny detail: apparently, he even asked Claude for advice about what he should do.
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Sam：我觉得他把“问Claude”这个细节写出来，很可能也有制造话题和幽默效果的目的，因为完全没有必要公开这种细节。但恰恰因为他说自己去问了Claude，整个故事就显得更有戏剧性。Alex：对，这也是一个有意思的点。对不起，Sam，我得离开五六分钟。Sam：没问题。Alex：我需要回一个电话，可能五到八分钟。我把摄像头留在这里，去另一个房间。真的很抱歉。Sam：没事。……回来以后——Sam：都还好吗？Alex：没问题，是关于一个工作面试的电话。Sam：好消息？Alex：还在流程中。Sam：明白。那我们刚才说到哪里了？我们正在讨论女演员据说坚持要求的那笔5000万美元。这个说法目前还没有被她本人证实，对吧？
Sam: I suspect he included the detail about asking Claude partly to generate publicity and partly because it was funny. There was no real need to mention it, but saying that he asked an AI for advice made the story even more dramatic and entertaining. Alex: Yes, that is another interesting point. Sam, I’m really sorry, but I need to step away for five or six minutes. Sam: No problem. Alex: I have to return a phone call. It may take five to eight minutes. I’ll leave the camera here and go into another room. I’m really sorry. Sam: That’s fine. … After Alex returns … Sam: Is everything okay? Alex: Yes. It was about a job interview. Sam: Good news? Alex: It’s still in process. Sam: Okay, good. So where were we? We were talking about the actress apparently insisting on that $50 million payment. At the moment, that is still his allegation and has not been confirmed by her, right?
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Alex：据我了解，她提出额外付款这件事已经被证实了。不过我这里记得的金额是500万美元，最后孙先生拒绝支付。Sam：明白。Alex：你也可以从景甜过去的感情经历理解她的一些价值观。她有过几段著名的恋情，而她曾经公开表达过一种看法：作为女演员，最好要有很强大的背景。她甚至在接受记者采访时直接表达过类似观点。所以你会发现，她参演的一些电影里有很多非常有名的演员，但她仍然可以处在非常核心的位置。比如成龙这样的国际明星，在她的一些电影里也只是联合主演。Sam：对。Alex：这说明她当时在娱乐圈获得的资源和地位非常特别。
Alex: My understanding is that the request for an additional payment was established, although the amount I remember here is $50 million. In any case, Mr. Sun refused to pay it. Sam: I see. Alex: You can also understand some of Jing Tian’s values by looking at her previous relationships. She has had several high-profile boyfriends, and she has publicly expressed the idea that, as an actress, you need a very powerful background. She reportedly said something similar directly in interviews. That is why people noticed that many extremely famous actors appeared in films with her, yet she was still given a very central position. For example, even an internationally famous star such as Jackie Chan could appear as a co-star in one of her films. Sam: Right. Alex: That gives you an idea of how unusual her access to resources and status in the entertainment industry seemed at the time.
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Alex：甚至中国最著名的导演之一张艺谋，和她一起出席某些场合时，也可能坐在第二排，而景甜坐在第一排。因此，外界曾有传言认为她的第一任男友来自非常有权势的政治家庭，甚至有人猜测与X的家人有关。后来大约在2015年前后，人们认为她和第一任男友分手了。她的第二任男友是一位非常著名的运动员。Sam：什么项目的？Alex：乒乓球，他叫张继科，是中国非常著名的乒乓球运动员。Sam：对。Alex：所以她前一段关系被外界想象成政治背景，后一段关系则是一位顶级体育明星。
Alex: Even Zhang Yimou, one of China’s most famous directors, was sometimes seen sitting in a less prominent position than Jing Tian at public events. That helped create the impression that she had extremely powerful backing. There were rumors that her first boyfriend came from a very influential political family, and some people even speculated about a connection to X’s family. Later, around 2015, people believed that relationship had ended. Her second boyfriend was a very famous athlete. Sam: What sport? Alex: Table tennis. His name was Zhang Jike, one of China’s most famous table-tennis players. Sam: Right. Alex: So, in the public imagination, one relationship was associated with political power, while the next involved a top-level sports star.
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Alex：张继科非常有名，但他有一个问题，就是喜欢赌博。Sam：哦。Alex：我个人觉得，第二任男友可能是景甜最真心喜欢的一段感情。但因为他赌博并且据说输了很多钱，两个人最终还是分手了。所以你可以看到，她的感情经历大致被公众描述为：第一个是政治背景很强的人，第二个是著名运动员，最后是商人。Sam：听起来确实有点像很多著名女演员的故事。Alex：对，最后出现的是商人。但商人往往也喜欢计算投入和回报，他们会从投资与收益的角度考虑问题。所以孙先生才会去问Claude，到底应不应该再给她那笔5000万美元。我相信这个故事本身有真实成分，但背后显然存在很多不同的动机。
Alex: Zhang Jike was extremely famous, but he was also known for having a gambling problem. Sam: Oh. Alex: Personally, I think he may have been the person Jing Tian genuinely loved the most. But because of his gambling and the large amounts of money he reportedly lost, the relationship eventually ended. So the public story of her relationships became something like this: first, a man associated with political power; second, a famous athlete; and finally, a businessman. Sam: That does sound like the pattern people often imagine in stories about famous actresses. Alex: Yes, and the businessman comes last. Businesspeople also tend to calculate costs and returns. They may look at relationships partly in terms of investment and benefit. That is why Mr. Sun supposedly asked Claude whether he should give her another $50 million. I believe parts of the story are real, but there are clearly many different motivations behind it.
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Sam：你觉得这场官司最后会怎样？如果一定要预测，你认为孙先生会赢吗？我不熟悉中国法律，但如果是在英国，我很难想象他为什么不能赢，并把钱拿回来。与此同时，如果一个人在英国像他一样发布长篇文章，公开女方这么多私人和亲密细节，他也一定会受到非常强烈的负面舆论，就像孙先生现在面对的情况一样。所以我很好奇你怎么看这场官司的结果。Alex：对我来说，官司最终怎么判其实并不重要。因为他起诉要求返还的金额大约是3000万，但我一时不确定这里说的是3000万美元还是3000万元人民币。Sam：明白。Alex：我更倾向于认为是3000万元人民币。
Sam: What do you think the outcome of the trial will be? If you had to make a prediction, do you think Mr. Sun will win? I’m not familiar with Chinese law, but if this happened in the UK, I would find it difficult to see why he would not win and recover the money. At the same time, if someone in the UK published a long post revealing that many private and intimate details about a woman, he would also receive enormous negative publicity, just as Mr. Sun has. So I’m curious about how you think the case will end. Alex: To me, the final outcome of the trial is not actually very important. He is asking for something like 30 million, although I’m not sure whether the figure is $30 million or 30 million yuan. Sam: I see. Alex: I think it is more likely to be 30 million yuan.
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Alex：如果只是3000万元人民币，那和他买那幅画花的钱差不多。也就是说，即使最后官司本身没有给他带来多大经济收益，他通过制造巨大关注度，其实已经达到了目的。Sam：对，我也看到有人做过类似推测。你刚才说这件事可能被用来转移大家对洪灾的注意力；我还读到另一种说法，说他自己在加密货币领域可能存在一些交易或问题，他也可能想把公众注意力从那些事情上移开。也就是说，同样是“转移注意力”的逻辑，只不过不是替政府转移，而是替自己转移。有人猜测，他可能担心某些加密货币交易以后会引发诉讼或指控，所以现在先制造一个更大的娱乐事件。Alex：对，这种可能性也不能排除。
Alex: If the amount is only 30 million yuan, that is roughly comparable to what he spent on the painting. In that sense, the legal outcome itself may not matter very much to him. He may already have achieved his real goal by generating enormous publicity. Sam: Yes. I also read someone making a similar argument. You were talking about the possibility that this story distracted attention from the flood, but I also read another theory: he may have cryptocurrency dealings or problems of his own that he wants people to stop focusing on. So it is the same basic idea of distraction, except this time he would be distracting attention away from himself rather than doing it for the government. Some people speculate that he may expect certain crypto dealings to lead to lawsuits or allegations later, so creating a much bigger celebrity story now could be useful. Alex: Yes, I think that possibility also exists.
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Alex：这让我想到记者这个职业。过去，记者和新闻工作者在世界上扮演了非常重要的角色。他们依靠艰苦的调查、职业精神以及对新闻的热爱，帮助公众理解真实发生的事情。但随着社会变化，尤其进入社交媒体时代以后，他们的处境完全不同了。现在很多人只要拍一段视频、上传到YouTube，就可以成为内容发布者。我们每天被一个又一个热点推着走，严肃的故事似乎不再那么重要。过去，我们会通过专业记者长期调查和认真报道来理解世界。我甚至记得看过很多著名电影，专门描写记者如何追查真相。那种工作非常辛苦，也因此值得尊敬。
Alex: This also makes me think about the profession of journalism. In the past, journalists and reporters played an extremely important role in the world. Through hard work, professional commitment, and a genuine love of reporting, they helped the public understand what was really happening. But society has changed, especially in the social-media era, and their position is very different now. Today, someone can simply film a video, upload it to YouTube, and immediately become a content creator. We are pushed from one trending topic to another every day, and serious stories can start to feel less important. In the past, we often understood the world through professional journalists who spent a long time investigating and reporting carefully. I even remember watching famous films about journalists pursuing the truth. That kind of work was extremely demanding, and it deserved respect.
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Alex：而现在，似乎那种长期、辛苦的新闻工作越来越不重要了。事情到底是黑还是白、是真还是假，有时人们好像都不在乎。再加上人工智能和先进技术的影响，现在甚至可以用AI制造一个虚假的故事，还能生成看起来非常真实的图片，而这些图片可能比真正的报道吸引更多注意力。Sam：是的，确实能吸引非常多关注。Alex：我有时在Facebook上会看到一些图片或海报，比如写着：“这是我们的国家，你应该按我们的方式生活；如果你想改变这个国家，那就回到你原来的地方。”这种内容明显是在针对加拿大的移民。很多这样的图片会得到大量转发和评论，也会有很多人留言支持。
Alex: Nowadays, however, it can feel as though that kind of long, difficult journalistic work matters less and less. Whether something is black or white, true or false, sometimes people seem not to care. On top of that, AI and advanced technology now make it possible to create a completely fake story and generate images that look very convincing. Those images may attract even more attention than a carefully researched report. Sam: Yes, they can draw a huge amount of attention. Alex: Sometimes I see images or posters on Facebook saying things like, “This is our country. You should live according to our way of life. If you want to change the country, go back to where you came from.” That kind of content is clearly directed against immigrants in Canada. These images can receive enormous engagement, and many people leave comments supporting the message.
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Alex：如果你是一个生活在加拿大的韩国人、中国人或印度人，看到这样的新闻、图片和留言以后，你很可能会重新考虑自己在这里的处境：这里到底是不是一个适合我长期生活的地方？我们上次也提到过，很多战争和冲突都来自分离、来自人与人之间联系越来越少。我们小时候都曾经对全球化抱有很大期待，觉得世界会变成一个“地球村”，大家可以更频繁地交流、旅行和相互理解。但现在看起来，世界反而越来越分裂：中国是中国，印度是印度，日本是日本，各个国家和群体越来越强调彼此之间的边界。Sam：对，确实有这种感觉。
Alex: If you are Korean, Chinese, or Indian and living in Canada, seeing that kind of news, imagery, and commentary may make you reconsider your position here. You might start asking yourself, “Is this really a good place for me to live in the long term?” We talked last time about how many wars and conflicts grow out of separation and a lack of connection between people. When we were younger, we both had high hopes for globalization. We imagined the world becoming a “global village,” where people could communicate, travel, and understand one another more easily. But now it often seems that the world is becoming more divided instead. China is China, India is India, Japan is Japan, and countries and communities are emphasizing their boundaries more strongly. Sam: Yes, I think there is definitely a sense of that happening.
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Alex：甚至我们今天谈到的男女关系也越来越像一种分离。女性对男性不满意，男性对女性也不满意，而且双方都能找到很多理由支持自己的观点。特别是在中国，现在越来越多的男性和女性选择不结婚。因为一旦结婚，就会立刻涉及很多争论：谁负责赚钱？谁主要承担家庭责任？谁做家务？谁照顾孩子？每个问题都可能变成冲突。于是有些人干脆觉得，那就不要结婚了。我认为这是一个新的社会趋势。Sam：我完全同意。我们今天也差不多要结束了，不过你刚才谈到记者的角色，我非常认同记者的重要性，而且我也和你一样，对现在社会对记者越来越不信任这件事感到不安。
Alex: Even the relationship between men and women—the topic we are discussing today—seems increasingly divided. Women are dissatisfied with men, men are dissatisfied with women, and both sides can find plenty of reasons to support their own views. In China especially, more and more men and women are choosing not to marry. Once people marry, they immediately face arguments about roles in the family: Who earns the money? Who carries the main responsibility for supporting the household? Who does the domestic work? Who takes care of the children? Every question can become a source of conflict. So some people simply decide not to marry at all. I think this is a new social trend. Sam: I completely agree. We’re almost at the end of our class, but I also want to return to your point about journalists. I strongly agree about their importance, and like you, I’m disturbed by the growing distrust of journalism.
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Sam：我不知道中国是不是一样，但现在西方社会对新闻业、甚至对各种专业知识都存在很强的不信任。只要有人说自己是专家，或者是科学家，就会有人马上怀疑他。比如科学家谈全球变暖时，有些人会说：“这是假的，你也是假的，我不会听你的。你只是为政府工作。”于是各种阴谋论就会出现。所以也许下一节课我们可以讨论一下专家在中国社会中的角色：人们现在还信任专业知识吗？会相信科学家对科学问题的解释吗？会相信记者提供真实新闻和最新信息吗？我会非常有兴趣听听你的看法，不过这就是下一次的话题了。Alex：好的。Sam：我们还剩最后一分钟。你现在还有什么想说的吗？或者下一节课有什么想重点讨论的问题？
Sam: I don’t know whether it is the same in China, but there is now a strong distrust of journalism in Western societies, and really of expertise in general. As soon as someone claims to be an expert or a scientist, some people become suspicious. When scientists talk about global warming, for example, people may respond, “No, it’s fake. You’re fake. I’m not listening to you. You work for the government.” Then all kinds of theories appear. So perhaps in our next class we can talk about the role of experts in Chinese society. Do people still trust expertise? Do they trust scientists to explain science? Do they trust journalists to provide truthful news and updated information? I would be very interested to hear your perspective, but that can be a topic for another day. Alex: Okay. Sam: We have one minute left. Is there anything else on your mind, or anything you want to focus on next time?
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Alex：我最后简单总结一下。在中国，现在连人权记者和人权律师在公共社会中都几乎看不到了。Sam：真的吗？Alex：对，我认为主要是因为政府限制。但与此同时，这似乎并没有阻止经济发展。很多人仍然可以赚很多钱，也可以过上非常舒适的生活。所以有时候我们会开始怀疑：人权记者和人权律师到底有多重要？甚至进一步会问，我们是不是一定要为了人权问题不断抗争？这本身就成为一个值得思考的问题。Sam：我觉得这会是一个非常有意思的话题。Alex：对。Sam：那我们下次可以继续。祝你晚上愉快。Alex：你也是。非常感谢你，Sam。Sam：不客气。再见。Alex：再见。
Alex: I’ll just give a quick conclusion. In China, even human-rights journalists and human-rights lawyers have almost disappeared from public life. Sam: Really? Alex: Yes. I think that is mainly because of government restrictions. But at the same time, this does not seem to have stopped economic development. People can still make a lot of money and enjoy very comfortable lives. So sometimes we begin to question how important human-rights journalists and human-rights lawyers really are. We may even go one step further and ask whether it is always necessary for us to struggle over human-rights issues. That itself becomes an important question to think about. Sam: I think that would be a fascinating subject. Alex: Absolutely. Sam: We can continue with it next time. Have a fantastic evening. Alex: You too. Thank you very much, Sam. Sam: You’re welcome. Bye. Alex: Bye.
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